More enlightenment needed on OEM carbon frames

Wheels of Happiness

Rizal Philippines
May 17, 2018

I this post continues  to post opportunities for many readers and followers to continue enjoying their biking by way of cheap affordable carbon frame dream bikes, many are  still not sold nor convinced about the efficacy of carbon bike frames made in Taiwan or China.  The post does not invite buyers for the picturesof the bikes so posted.  It is for them to make a choice

We still talk about fakes and orig.

It was earlier posted that 95% of bikes world wide are made in China and Taiwan. Even high end bikes.   - name it:  Colnago, Bianchi, Pinarello, S works etc are made in China and Taiwan.  These two countries own the equipment and technology to make top end carbon frames (now T1100) for every select buyers worldwide.   They now have their own brands:  Seraph, Toseek. Rockbros

When a famous local store in posh Pasig district had a sale of European bikes, the bikes that were delivered to my friends had stickers that said these R...bikes are made in China.  Is then a fake? Did the store get fake bikes from China and delivered them as orig

The Pinarello that I saw at the local store had a sticker that says it is Made In Italy?   Is it orig?

Also it is not about  bikes:  org or legit;   It is about your knees and fitness.  Two Sundays ago, I rode alongside a biker who was on "Orig" Madone and hated every bit of the  Venge Vias I was riding on (an OEM)  He arrived five minutes  later at the lugawan.

Many are now convinced that "Orig" legit bikes are really made  in Taiwan and/or China.  Search for You Tube video about Chinarello bikes and even carbon wheel set made in China.  Take note that  high tech companies like FSA and SRAM have their HQ in Taiwan.

Zipp, the leading edge company in carbon wheelset is now  owned by SRAM based in Taiwan.  Are SRAM or Zipp fake brands.  That they are made in Taiwan does not prevent any  one to make a carbon copy of a carbon item.

More and more discriminating elite bike buyers now elect to buy OEM bikes.  For the price of one they could have 3 or more bikes.... (Di pa nakokopya GS.  Soon makokopya na din yan)  Lahat ng technology nakokopya.   Name these professionals:   doctors, engineers, govt officials, OFW are now electing to go OEM.   Many posts made by this post gather several k at a time.

If you go to AWST bikes site, AlieExpress or DH gate, you will find out many China Taiwan branded carbon frames come with two year warranty.  So OEM talaga.  Many pundits will miss the boat and the opportunity from Ivory legalistic mindset.

May mga nasty unenlightened comments pa rin.  The new understanding about worldwide manufacturing and marketing does not seem to register.  May be those who bought the orig envy those who got same stuff at 1/5 the price.   And regret it... And could only afford to destroy the OEM as a vengeance....

Hindi umaasenso pag iisip ng iba kaya hindi umaasenso...pati bansa natin.  Ang masabi. Wasabe

                                                  Look at the UCI sticker

                                            Naka ceramic bearings ang BB

Why do owners of high end bike stores visit Taiwan often?

Wheels of Happiness

Rizal Philippines
May 13, 2018

Sometime two months ago I conversed with a top officer of a prestigious bike company.   I heard him say that we meets with Taiwanese supplier and/or he flies to Taiwan often.

Which makes one think.  That their outfit supplies high end bikes, from Europe,and that some of the bikes which they put on sale are branded as made in Taiwan.... One wonder if it was really worth debating about orig or legit bikes,  because we do not know whether there are orig/legit bikes anymore.  All else, even high end bikes are made in China/Taiwan

Possibility of obtaining carbon bike frames (unpainted) without logo from Taiwan

Wheels of Happiness

Rizal Philippines
April 25, 2018

I emailed AWST, and Taiwan bikes for the possibility of betting carbon bike frames (unpainted )  from Taiwan.  I just talked to Ado and he said we might be able to have base paint done at low price:

                  Bike frames free shipping   -                       $200.00               10,400.00
                  Custom                                                                                      2,000.00
                  Decal                                                                                         1,500.00
                  Base paint                                                                                     700.00

                   Total cost                                                                                14,600.00

                    Say                                                                                         15,000.00

Puwede na?

Are bikes B bikes , bike frames made in Taiwan counterfeit? You will be surprised. Or are "original" bikes not made in Taiwan?

Wheels of Happiness

Rizal Philippines
February 20, 2018

                                                      Bianchi frames are made in Taiwan.
                                            So fake ba OEM bikes being brought in from Taiwan?

There was a very long thread in a group FB page regarding this question:  Are Taiwan made frames, carbon parts counterfeit?  The house was divided:   a group says it isnt;  the other say it is.   I was one of those who say that many US and European "original bike marketers" outsource their manufacturing offshore ie to China and Taiwan.   These are centers for excellence for carbon manufacturing:   high tech equipment, processes. The source of top grade carbon fiber, Toray is Japan

I saw this in a bike forum:   From Road CC forum

Oltre XR4 made in taiwan???

by ccasavantes December 24 2016

13 Comments

    

Hi there, I am writing because I recently bought online a new bianchi oltre xr4 frame, and when I got it, I  realized that this was made in Taiwan. My question is basically if you guys know that this is a genuine Bianchi frame, or could be a chance that is a counterfeit piece.

The reply:

kev-s [283 posts] 1 year ago

1 like 

All Bianchi frames are made in Taiwan

Most well known Italian brands like Pinarello, Wilier and some of the mid to lower end Colnago's are made in Taiwan  (Colnago produce their top end frames the C59, C60, Master, Arabesque etc... in Italy)

Do a Google search and there's loads of info on this telling you why they moved to Taiwan and how they control the quality, here is a good starting point

May pa mga infringement of copyright pa sila eh sila nag outsource ng manufacturing.....(bakit hindi sila consider na namemeke?).

This is a long article on where your bikes are really made?  You guessed it right - in Asia.   They may buy the frame for only $200.00 put  labels,, paint it put GS and the wheels and presto the price jumps to 10x that much.   Let us not be fooled by these behemoths about real origin of their bikes.

Discussion: Where are your bikes really made?

Same content repeated in Australian forum

The harsh truth is out.   Many 95% of your expensive bikes are made in China and Taiwan and are not fakes.

Baka mawalan ng gana purists....Na brain wash tayong mabuti ng marketers for believing that there is an original and fake.

Enlightenment on global manufacturing: outsourcing offshoring

Wheels of Happiness

Rizal Philippines
February 14, 2018

                                                           Kenda bike tire factory in Taiwan

As this post reads some of comments as to whether made in Taiwan bikes/parts are fake or not, certain lack of understanding emerges from some quarters.  (Nakakahiya especially Taiwan hosts many of highly paid Filipino OFWs) Taiwan manufacturing is growing leaps and bounds due to their manufacturing prowess, quality build and customer satisfaction.  For carbon and other bike manufacturing the country has become a center with state of art facilities for CNC and carbon fiber manufacturing.   European and North American manufacturers have recognized this that they unashamedly have the frames made in Taiwan and China.  Now some Taiwan manufacturers have outsourced established their plants in Mainland China where labor is cheaper

In investments this flows from where returns are highest, or costs are lower.  Thus Western countries outsources its manufacturing elsewhere:  Asia and China where labor and other costs are lower. Thus we have BPO where labor costs are lower by a factor of 5 up to 10.  Some name brands even in UK and Italy have Asian suppliers.  Please take note that biggest supplier of quality carbon fiber, Toray is Mitsubishi, based in Asia.  So it is cheaper really to outsource in Asia:  from raw material and manufacturing

This is not a new phenomenon.  GM and Boeing outsource some of their parts to Korea, Japan.  Some aerospace firms airplane company I am surprised have suppliers from Laguna.  And that means we should not belittle products and parts outsourced from Taiwan. Apple and Samson are squabbling over intellectual property rights, because Apple outsourced from Samsung

I had a friend who bought an Alum Ridley Fenix frame.  It was alleged that the frame was pre ordered by an outlet in Eastwood from Cebu.  It had a sticker that says made in China (not Taiwan) Same as any other quality frame I saw.  It weighed in at 1.6 kg

OEM

 Some companies in US and Europe, and online shopping companies are marketing companies just like supermarkets that get many products elsewhere.  Nike for instance does not a have shoe plant;  there are subcontractors that just put their label on their shoes . The same goes true for Dell:  its computers being ordered online are assembled elsewhere in the world:  Winstron does the manufacturing and FEDEX did the delivery at Subic.  Dell computers are sturdy and reliable.  Do you doubt its quality though it was made in the Phil.

Those who manufacture for a brander in US or Europe are called OEM: Orginal Equipment Manufacturer.  They assemble genuine products following the branders specs and material requirements.  The brander simply puts their decals and brochure in boxes that came from Taiwan or  China.

China and Taiwan compete in global market. They cant afford to fail in this market by coming out with low quality or shoddy products.

Giant and SRAM factories are based in Taiwan;  so fake ang products nila just because my label ng Taiwan. Colonial mentality has not left many of the heads of our kababayan!

So are Taiwan made CF fake?  This post would like to repeat that Taiwan has superior technology in CNC (machining of bike parts) and carbon fiber.

Taiwan a center for bike bike parts manufacturing many focus on high end market.

"God  created the world in 6 days,  and afterwards, everything else was made in China"

                                                    SRAM Truvative factory in Taiwan

From bike rumor: Visit to SRAM factory located in rural Taiwan

                                                     Mga fake ba Truvativ at SRAM products?

Why fear China made carbon fiber components?

Wheels of Happiness

Rizal Philippines
January 24, 2018

The post on carbon fiber bought by Ed de los Reyes from Lazada drew a number of comments, some of them expressing fear of breakage because it is from China  I dare say, there is no need for worry.

The Toseek the TCTH brand in China might be trusted name all ready testing the  Phil market.

Are you aware that FSA (Full Speed Ahead) GTS, SRAM are Taiwan based? And yet do you fear their failures.    China manufacturing has come of age and many of their products can be trusted and are reliable.  Sige matakot kayo. Enjoy lang kami ng murang piyesa.

1. What is carbon fiber material?

    It is space material that is 3x lighter than steel but 3x stronger. It is made by impregnating carbon fiber with resin having this dried naturally or baked.  Vacuum is employed to remove bubbles while the polymer is drying.  It is very much doing things with fiber glass.

   While it is very strong, it is also very brittle. We see formula cars breaking into small bits when they crash. The nice thing about carbon fiber is that it can be shaped, to any shape you want.    The biggest source of carbon fiber is in Asia with most of the supply dominated by Toray, based in Japan

Properties of Carbon fiber

10 things you many not know about Carbon Fiber

2. Hence most of the carbon fiber supplier are also from Asia:   2/3 of world"s  supply is from Mitsubishi.  Toray is the most popular brand Taiwan and China.  Most OEM suupliers are in Taiwan and China.  OEM means original equipment manufacturer. They are outsourcing, subcontractor of say Italian or UK bike sellers/marketers:  they make the frame in Taiwan with specs coming from UK or Italy OEM ship them back without label  but maybe painted, and the branded supplier brands the frames.  In other words, the technology to make the frame is in Taiwan and China

Asia Pacific supplied 40% of worlds carbon fiber with China  and Japan leading the way followed by Taiwan and South Korea

Many bike manufacturers lack the capability to make carbon fiber parts/frames.

The most reliable and experienced carbon fiber parts manufacturer are from Taiwan and China.  They have big factories molds and oven. They know what they are doing.

Making carbon fiber parts is not big deal. Again, it is like making fiber glass. I know of subcontractors who make carbon fiber exhaust for MC and exports them to Singapore.  We have local manufacturers who make carbon wheels (carbo nation) CNC and many repairs are undertaken by them. What frames  wheel set or components do they repair? China or orig?   All breakdown.  We see videos of carbon wheel set exploding as the riders run over a dog, or bikes disintegrating  after a crash.    Are they China made or original

Carbon fiber has an inherent weakness;  it has a lot of bawal:

    1.  Heat
    2.  Pressure. Do not clamp the bike on a bike stand.  So most breakdown occur at TT where the
         bikes are held by bike stand;
   3.  Corrosion:  where metal and carbon fiber meet as the attachment of water bottle and frame, the FD the seat post.    Some say that it has 5 year expiry period What is the life span of carbon fiber frames? Most manufacturers give a five (5) year warranty.  But most say especially the CF engineers that CF can actually last you a  lifetime.

   Some warning:

   1. Avoid buying 2nd hand frame;  sellers also do not give warranty;  they cant warrnt anything on carbon
       fiber

  2.  Avoid cf bikes used under too much stress:   off road,  rugged roads, racing. They are likely to be damaged at the stays.  Inspect very carefully when buying.

  3. Do not keep your bike in the car under the heat of the sun for long.

  4.  If you have carbon fiber bike, avoid cooking your brakes, whether it is aluminum or carbon brake line.  The heat is likely to degrade the carbon fiber.

  5.  Some carbon frames might be heavier than alum or other alloy.

  6. Watch for signs of corrosion especially where metal and carbon fiber meet:    seat post, braze on on for FD. That is where due to galvanic corrosion,  weakness, and cracks begin to appear

Bike wheel building

Real Cyclists

Made in Taiwan